Yusuf Kabba

Yusuf Kabba

Q: This is Sam Robson, and I'm sitting here today with Mr. Yusuf Kabba. Today's date is October 7th, 2016, and we're recording at CDC's Roybal Campus in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm interviewing Yusuf as part of the CDC Ebola Response Oral History Project. Yusuf, thank you so much for being here with me today.

KABBA: My pleasure.

Q: For the record, would you mind stating your full name?

KABBA: My name is Yusuf Kabba, the national president for Sierra Leone Association of Ebola Survivors, and also a representative working strongly and in collaboration with CDC in terms of coordinating the fight against Ebola in Sierra Leone, West Africa.

Q: Thank you so much for that. Can you tell me when and where you were born?

KABBA: Of course, I'm a Sierra Leonean. I was born in the eastern part of Sierra Leone in Koidu Town, Kono District, Gbense Chiefdom. I am twenty-eight years of 00:01:00age and, of course, Sierra Leone in West Africa, the region, and I'm Kono by tribe. One of the minority ethnic groups in Sierra Leone. I came from an extended family. My mother, [unclear] stepmother with some other family relatives and my religion, I'm Muslim, and believe in Islam, as I do my five daily prayers. Of course, my favorite food, I like people to know [laughter] about what I love is cassava leaf and rice. Honestly. Of course, it's a pride 00:02:00for me anyway, of course, to be working or to be a form of a consultant in the survivors wing for CDC in terms of looking at the issue of survival during the height of the coordination. We are working with them closely in the worst-affected areas.

Q: I very much look forward to getting to that. But if it's okay, I'm also interested just in your personal history a little bit. What did you do for a living before Ebola?

KABBA: I was a student, and I'm still a student studying in the Milton Margai College of Education and Technology. Of course, I'm doing the higher teacher's certificate course. I'm practicing to be a high school teacher, and I am reading 00:03:00government and social studies, which is a key subject area, model, for our country in terms of the education of the sectors. I'm reading that and [unclear]. I attended first in my junior secondary school was Koidu Secondary School in Kono, and from there I later proceeded to the high school which is Trinity, the Holy Trinity International Secondary School that I attended. I sat through the high school examination, and I was fortunate actually to pass the 00:04:00exam. From there, I enrolled. My first year, I became infected with Ebola, so I drop out of courses. After I survived, I started a bit, but based on financial constraints, I am still finding it very, very difficult how to accomplish my studies, basically.

Q: Let's go ahead and get into the Ebola story and let's start from the beginning. Just tell me about what it was like hearing about Ebola for the first time and take me forward from there.

KABBA: Before coming to Ebola, I think I just need to illustrate a brief history about the war because I think from that channel before coming to Ebola. Sierra 00:05:00Leone went through eleven years of civil war. The country was hard-hit, devastated. We lost the tourism system in the country. Poor economic management, and poor health sector, poor agricultural sector, because the war just destroyed everything. Everything just vanished. The government and the people of the country, we are actually fighting to restore back the things that were destroyed, until finally Ebola came.

We heard about Ebola first during the seventies in [The Democratic Republic of] Congo, where we first get brief information about Ebola, how Ebola actually hit 00:06:00Congo in a small community there by the forest part, and there is a river in that particular village that was called "Ebola." People after that area was hard-hit, that name was actually given to that particular environment and also us as the name for the particular virus, Ebola epidemic. It started in West Africa, Guinea, way back in March, way back in March during the 23rd to the 24th in March, ending of 2013 to '14 almost. We started from that point. But fairly, when the issues took up, we were just complacent because we forgot that if 00:07:00Guinea, our neighboring countries Guinea or Liberia sneezes, no matter how you look at it, Sierra Leone must catch the cold because we all feel together, we share the same boundary, we share the same borderline. We have interrelationships in terms of marriage, in terms of different, different, different areas. There was a village very close to the eastern part of Sierra Leone which is Kailahun District, Kissi Teng, Koindu, Kpondu Village. Kpondu Village is where it all started. There was a lady--most of the time we called them herbalists. The herbalists. They use herbs to cure people. So the issue, I think she was [unclear] a relative by then in Guinea, in that close village to 00:08:00Kpondu. When this relative was actually sick, I mean her fatal illness, she decided to visit there and cure that person. When she visited, she tried to cure the person, but unfortunately, the person died. After, she turned back to the village called Kpondu in Kailahun District, the eastern part of Sierra Leone, West Africa. After some time, she started feeling strange. But the whole idea of Ebola was new to us, was treacherous. We thought about the issue, thought about something Ebola, but for us to take it seriously and do more research on it, we failed. That was one poor aspect of coordination and surveillance. Until 00:09:00unfortunately, that lady died in Kpondu Village. After some days, I think she died before the official date of Ebola in the country. The official date in Sierra Leone was May 25th, 2014. But we started recording Ebola cases way back in February, you know, February to March. Understand, February to March. But because we don't know the source of death of most of these people, being that most of them were infected by Ebola but we don't know. The only time that we recorded that Ebola, of confirmed cases now in Sierra Leone, was May 25th. There, we got the knowledge that honestly, there is an enemy now called Ebola 00:10:00virus. From there, we lose up to seven to eight thousand Sierra Leoneans. We recorded up to ten thousand orphans, and up to four thousand Ebola survivors, and up to thousands of widows, and up to also thousands of widowers in the country.

Q: I'm sorry to interrupt. Yusuf, I'm interested in your personal history, too, what your experiences were like. Do you remember Ebola when it was first coming near you, affecting people you knew?

KABBA: My own personal--yeah, exactly. When the issue struck, I was always just wondering. I was wondering, after we've lost most of these people, and I was actually worrying, the whole show. I was just confused because if something 00:11:00happens to the country's economy, I was also worried about that, to look. Because even in the past eleven years of civil war, by then I was just a young boy at a very teenager stage. I actually [unclear], it's a lot of traumatic experience during the war because as a young child, a kid by then, every day we are evacuated from one place to another, to even get a focused mind like how normally I used to go to school in my initial stage with my friends in our nursery stage, but unfortunately, based on the war, we were all evacuated. Finally--I was actually just confused, getting a restless mind, just worrying about the whole thing, until when they burnt down one of our structures in Kono 00:12:00District, when I got the message, I was just worried as a young boy thinking of--the thing was actually a bit fun because I was not even thinking about the house itself. I was thinking of the room where I used to sleep. I said, oh, I miss my room. [laughs] I was just too curious about the room and my toys, and that was the thing I was really just curious about. It took me awhile. I was just thinking, now I'm going to regain that and now, how I'm going to also unite with my colleagues for us to move to school. And I was also just thinking about [unclear] how we used to create some fun, getting some playtime together. So I was actually worried about all that.

The same traumatic experience continues when the issue of an outbreak came. I 00:13:00was actually worried, and I was worrying when even sitting together with other people. Sometimes I just kept mute, kept quiet. They said, "Why?" I just sometimes get lost because my mind, I was just thinking, we've lost so many people now, we've heard about another enemy again that will kill people. I don't want to die. I was just too worried about most of these things, until finally they said, we don't have to touch people, we don't have to exchange maybe kitchen stuff, we don't have to sit in the same place, we don't have to touch each other. So I was also worried about all these necessary precautions. I was worried about that. So there was a time that I attempted to shake hands with 00:14:00someone. And fortunately, they said, "No, no, no. They said ABC, Avoid Body Contact." The meaning of ABC. That campaign actually came up. So I was also worried about that. It's just like something negatively came and actually put a knife on the thing that used to keep us together. So now there is a distance between, hi, with even my neighbors. I can't be able to interact with them. So this is all my frustration. Sometimes when you want to visit the next [unclear], I say, "Man, you don't need to come to my house. Please, they said another meaning for ABC again is also Avoid--no, another one is APC, Avoid People's Compounds. Don't go to people's houses." So these are all of the things that actually frustrated me, that gave me more frustration in terms of I get worried 00:15:00about my social life, how to even interact with people. All these were issues that I was actually worried about. These are just experiences. The most time when I sat down thinking of this horrible experience, of how I came to the city to acquire education. I came from Kono District and I was just thinking, now, if I died, I came in the capital city for an important purpose: to follow my education. But now I've heard about Ebola, so I'm worried. And the problem there, I was even thinking of going back home, but now they've quarantined most of the areas, so there is no way for me to go back or for me to go forward. So I was actually worried about all these things. Most of the time I got sleepless 00:16:00nights, I can't sleep. I was just worried, getting terrible nightmares thinking of the situation, thinking of the kind of miserable events. So these are all worries.

Even the cultural practices that were [unclear]. Like my parents, they are farmers. They used to farm, and some of my relatives are there that are hunters. They used to hunt animals in the forest, and most of the time we used those animals for feeding. Unfortunately, all these things were banished. Nobody should eat bush meat. So these were all worries for me, that I think this particular--so I was actually evaluating, looking at the issues around the Ebola stuff and also the war that is just of the same. Because the issue of 00:17:00evacuation, people were evacuated, and of course--one thing, again, that actually disturbed my mind most times was the issue of a gap, a gap in love relationships. We all know that in our own African setting, if someone is sick, that person, him or her needs attention, needs effective caring, to be playing with him or to be getting more time with him. But unfortunately, Ebola actually just cut down this bridge, that issue of love, that issue of unity. So Ebola, I thought of it as an evil spirit that came through the wing of evil to us to 00:18:00destroy love that was created by God. Surely.

Q: I understand you yourself are a survivor. Is that correct?

KABBA: Yes, sure. I became infected on the 6th of October 2014. I contracted the virus from a medical doctor called Dr. Vandy Quee. He's an uncle to me. After Dr. Vandy died, the problem there, there was poor infrastructure in terms of coordination, in terms of responding to the Ebola crisis because it took Dr. Vandy's sample quite a while. After total tests, the results came out. They said 00:19:00by then he was suffering from just malaria, typhoid and some other illness. That gave us confidence to get more close contact with Dr. Vandy Quee, because there was nothing to fear. According to them, according to the sample result, he was just suffering from malaria. So we had more time with him, interacting, until finally he died.

And after some days, I think to a week, I started feeling strange, getting severe cold. I mean, it was not too severe in the initial stage, but a bit chilly, slight cold. From there, I started experiencing headache, a bit of headache. But I thought it was just a normal thing, so I took some medicines, 00:20:00some first aid kid, but unfortunately, nothing happened. So I was worried. Based on the campaign about the signs and symptoms of Ebola, some of the radio programs, because I do follow up. There was a time I was listening. From there, I started getting--we are talking about the signs [unclear]. And of all what has been [described] on the radio is the same way I'm feeling, but it was nothing too serious. So I said, hmm, I think I need to do something about myself. I said, I need to do something. So finally, I engaged the surveillance officer and I explained myself to him and he said, "My dear, I think word of advice, don't worry. Tomorrow, when I come out, I will take your information down, and from 00:21:00there I will see. So he took my information, and after a while, it started getting a bit serious and a bit severe. I was getting diarrhea, but I didn't--actually, there was no vomitus, but I started observing diarrhea. So from there, they took me to the holding center for them to observe me for a while.

There comes in my worst experience ever during the outbreak: the day I entered the ambulance. The ambulance was in front of me, if I can remember back, yeah. The surveillance officer was just standing by, and he was having the list of 00:22:00information, and my name was there. He called, "Yusuf Kabba, we are here to collect you and you will go in today to the holding center. We will observe you and also diagnose you to know exactly if you are positive of the virus." [unclear] Wow. I was just too shocked. People in the community, family members, were all there, stood watching, just watching. Four to five hundred people. Yeah. The mentality back then, when you enter the ambulance, you are not going to come back. You are going to die, absolutely. When you became infected, honestly, you are not going to make it. There is no cure for Ebola. Ebola is 00:23:00incurable. So here comes in my own tragedy. When I approached the ambulance, people were crying. Crying, saying goodbye to me, staying farewell, because indeed. I also accepted that, I'm going to die. I also responded to that. Goodbye. I was crying bitterly inside the ambulance. From there, he started alarming, wha-wha-wha-wha-wha. Everywhere. So people are just wondering, what is happening there? It's actually [unclear]. Oh, they said, Yusuf, do you know Yusuf? Oh, yes, a young guy. Yusuf is dead now already; he's now a dead man. He's going, and we're not going to receive him back. He's going, it's forever. Oh my gosh. They took me until I think we're close. [unclear] The ambulance, the 00:24:00alarm was so severe, you could see vehicles just giving way, giving way, wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha-wha. I just managed to just look because I was trying to just get maybe my last glance at the street. Maybe that would be the last, that's how I was looking at it. I managed to just fight to just see outside of it, but I couldn't. From there, I was tired. So tired, weak. So I relaxed. I started a bit nodding.

After I arrived at the holding center, called Newton, the Western Rural part of Freetown, miles from the capital. I was just staying a bit far because now, they 00:25:00are working with precautions. Instead of they touch me or move closer to me, there was a distance, some centimeters away, talking to me. "Are you Yusuf Kabba? How are you feeling?" I said, "I'm not feeling well." "Ah, let me see your eyes. Is it red?" I said, "Yes, it's red." "Okay, what about diarrhea?" I said, "I have started." "Okay. How, how are you?" I said, "I'm feeling tired, and I don't even want to eat anything." "Okay, let's just go inside."

They took my information and they followed me into the holding center. I met corpses of dead people. Unfortunately, these are also factors leading to more cases: poor hygiene, poor sanitation. These people who are there on the beds, 00:26:00the bed where I was, the bed, they fed me, was just too filthy and stained with blood. The whole room, all over, blood. In the whole place, stained blood. I was actually scared of going through, but there was no way. After I enter, they closed the gate. Nobody to talk to. Nobody to see, unless people that are dying. Some were crying. I was just looking at them. So I totally gave up now. I said, oh, if I can meet dead corpses like this, we are all of the same case. How? What should be my fate?

They followed me. In there, they never gave treatment. I was expecting them to 00:27:00give me maybe something to rehydrate me, to give me treatment, but they said, no, they are waiting for the official permission based on after taking my sample if my result comes positive, they will follow me to where I will get treatment. I said, my God, I'm finished. So I was there suffering until it gets worse now and it gets serious. Severe diarrhea, severe vomitus, to the worst, I started bleeding blood. Chronic blood, severe, severe.

There was one morning when we were discussing with some other members about five to three, one evening, during the morning hour, when I touched most of them, they are all dead. Yeah. I was just there, alive, struggling, suffering. I really suffered, honestly, I was suffering, until finally--I think I took one week and some days before knowing my status. Poor coordination. Until finally, 00:28:00the CHO, the community health officer, came one day and said, "Who is Yusuf Kabba? Yusuf Kabba, please, your results are available and you are positive. We will see how we can refer you to the Ebola treatment center." Oh, my family members, everybody, we are just crying. But I did not cry. I was happy. The reason being, because I was finding a way to get treatment. That is why. When they said I'm positive, I said, thank God, maybe now I've got the opportunity for them to respond to some of my constraints, my problems. So they referred me to the treatment center. I was actually frustrated now. Things just get worse. Tired of myself. I totally gave up. I was really praying now to join my 00:29:00ancestors. From there, they called me, that my uncle and some other family members, friends, have gone, they also died in my absence. Yeah. I think in all, I lost about seven family members.

But what motivated me to actually survive Ebola is the visible evidence. I saw people who also were infected, who had gone through the treatment, and now they are in the recovery stage. They gave me a warm welcome. "Yusuf, no need to cry. Stand up, stand strong, you will survive. We were just like you one day. Today, we are preparing to leave this place. Tomorrow might be your own time." That was the time I stood strong. I said, oh, so I'm going to survive. I started motivating myself. I tell the medical people that I'm going to survive. They 00:30:00said sure. I said, "I'm sure that I'm going to survive. I'm going to be like these guys one day who are now going out." It was just that I started--I was just fighting. Initially, when they gave me food, I said no. When they gave me medicine, I said there is no need for it because I am here to die, I'm going to die. So from there, when they gave me medicine, I used to take. When they gave me food, I used to eat. I was just fighting until finally, finally, finally, finally, I started getting better, better. That was the time when I--yeah, in the restroom, I stood upright because initially I can't stand upright. I was just too low because I was just feeling my back, feeling my stomach, feeling my head, everything. Ebola is such a "contigent" force. That is how I used to call it. Malaria, cholera, typhoid, severe pain, headache, loss of appetite, 00:31:00everything is a combination, a "contigent." From there, I stood a bit upright. I looked at myself in the mirror. I asked, "Who you are?" I said, "I'm going to be an Ebola survivor." And I'm a survivor now. I smiled a bit. That was the time I managed to smile, when I looked at my face in the mirror in the hospital. From there I bent down. I moved outside. I was actually motivated, until finally, I started--it remains two days for me to move to the recovery ward. I started with some physical exercise, moving out, jumping, jumping, jumping, doing some physical activities, most time just run a bit. I almost sometime play music, I started dancing. I said, I need to dance because to just get joy. I miss all 00:32:00these things. I told them I'm going to die. Well, I'm not dead. So maybe it's time for me to rejoice. So I was getting this moment, until finally, I also started the initiative in there of the Sierra Leone Association of Ebola Survivors. From there, I was looking at the need, that my case was--confidence. I was in need of motivation. All the things that I was in need when I was in a war situation, I was looking at the way how we can also give this same confidence to other people who were in the holding center, who were in the treatment center. Some ran away when they became infected. How to give confidence to them. So I started it there, engaging family members in the hospital, calling them for us to get a meeting there. Most of them were happy, and most time we sat down, we talked stories, talking about animals. Because I 00:33:00would just find it amazing, how we can forget about our soul, so how we can build up a new life. Most time when we're engaged, we sometimes sing like this, "We have to dance together, sing together, hope is alive. We've got to dance together, sing together, hope is alive. We've got to kick Ebola, kick Ebola, hope is alive. We have to kick Ebola, kick Ebola, hope is alive." And this song was much more promoted by one doctor, Dr. Judy from America here. We were actually motivated, most time we engage in some stuff.

I was discharged on the 29th of November, 2014. I went to my community. I thought that they were going to reject me. But nothing like that happened. I was 00:34:00highly celebrated. I was warmly welcomed back. Friends were sympathizing. I was pushing away from them, but they came close to me. "No need, Yusuf, to push away, you are one of us, we appreciated you, thanks for your resilience." They were just giving one love to me until finally our president of the country, His Excellency Dr. Ernest Bai Koroma, pronounced survivors as heroes and heroines, pronounced survivors as ambassadors. I was really proud of that title as an ambassador and also as a hero.

Finally and conclusively, I am still proud to be an Ebola survivor. One thing that always moved me for this work that I'm doing: I'm doing a voluntary job. There is nothing I'm realizing at the end of the day. But there is one key thing there: the passion for humanity. That is all, the passion for humanity. I 00:35:00believe I can sacrifice my life for people. I trust in that, that I stand for the right of the people, and I stand for equality. Because these were my activities. When they started discriminating survivors in Sierra Leone, I said no, we deserve the same. We say no to racism, no to stigmatization. I was fighting for equality, honestly, and I'm happy that I succeeded in that, that I give hope to the four thousand survivors in-country, to the orphans, that they also belong, they are also citizens of the Republic of Sierra Leone, and I'm actually motivated in that because if I can continue to this height where I am today, it's like what I started or what I'm doing is a good job. That is why I am here. I'm mostly here to thank CDC because we were actually working closely 00:36:00with them, supporting the coordination. And after we survived, we attended the EOC [emergency operations center], they initiated the EOC in Sierra Leone, the EOC. That was the planning center for the whole fight, and that supported us greatly. We used to attend meetings in EOC, and finally, we know that the Center for Disease Control, they have the preventive measures, and they also give assurance. CDC, the American government gives assurance to people. West Africa was in doubt. We are to go. Ebola is incurable, but the government, CDC said don't worry, we will find a cure for it, we will save you people. That is why I am happy to be here, to extend that to them, to extend this special gratitude to CDC, to the American government, on behalf of the survivors in my country, on 00:37:00behalf of the orphans, on behalf of the widows, on behalf of the whole affected and both infected family members in the Republic of Sierra Leone that we are actually proud, to CDC, to the American government, for the support being given. And we are also proud that they remind us of a very good historical event, that war. That's a special reminder--it reminds us that we need to keep vigilant, we need to keep more surveillance systems that will help us very, very, very strongly. Once more, I'm Yusuf Kabba. Our motto goes like this. "Who feels it knows it." Thank you.

Q: [laughs] Thank you so much, Yusuf. That was brilliant. I just have a little question at the end. Can you tell me about what your work with the survivors' association involves? Like what kind of activities you're involved in.

KABBA: Yeah. Like one, coordination, to coordinate the activities of the 00:38:00survivors. Two, advocacy is a major thing. Three, monitoring and evaluation for survivor services, like all partners in country providing services to survivors. I am there with my team to navigate. If this survivor here is actually in need of livelihood, we navigate and see how we can link him or her to maybe those that are maybe supporting a little bit and livelihood. It's about health. We have partners who are providing. These are basically--I notice with the outreach, I'm honest because I know, engaging the survivors, I can understand what I can do, what I call "problem analysis" to know what their current status in the ground or in their communities, how they are with their community people. 00:39:00And most time, I also engage in community engagement, getting the traditional leaders, getting the religious leaders, getting the survivors, about integration, talk to them how they can accept Famata, Isatu, Saleh, and Fatu. That I serve these people, they are your community people. I raise this kind of awareness, how the survivors can get the kind of support they require. So these are basically my activities. Most time, I used to be in the villages. I don't have much time in the city in fact because it's just my full-time engagement. I'm always just in the provinces, in the regions, moving from one place to another, mapping where survivors are, getting their data, and from there, 00:40:00reaching to the orphans that are isolated, trying to connect. Because I am also mediating between the government and the survivors. Most of the areas where the gaps lie, I actually identify that to them. Now, there are thirty orphans in the Rokupa community. They want this, they want this, they want this, they want this. From there, I took information. Yeah, these are basically my activities.

Q: Thank you so much for elucidating that. We're also lucky to have with us today Terri Heyns with CDC Foundation. Terri, do you have any questions for Yusuf?

Heyns: I'd love to hear a bit more about what some of the current needs are related to the survivors' association. What are some of the biggest challenges that you currently have?

KABBA: Well, the challenges, like one, in terms of infrastructure, we have so 00:41:00many challenges. Like even movement. We don't have vehicles, we don't motorbikes. That we can be able to move and engage most of these communities. Yeah, mobility is one major thing. Secondly, office spaces, and also office space equipment. We have just one, and that one is also just limited to maybe one year. And we don't have enough office equipment, we don't have the running cost of it, and we don't have funding to support our activities. These are our--like, we have the adult literacy program, and also this engagement that we do involving. But we don't have funding to support most of these activities. And to help us move further I think the capacity building of the organization is one 00:42:00major thing that is like [unclear] and other people, they are planning how to do capacity assessment on the association. But these are the major concerns, how to improve on the association capacity. Key members that are there to give them some of the necessary support that they require, and for us to get--we will not talk about salary, but for us to get a stipend to cover maybe communication and some of this stuff that will help us strongly in terms of continuous advocacy.

Heyns: I know you mentioned the EOC before. Can you talk a bit more about what role that played in the response and how that worked?

KABBA: The EOC, the emergency center like in the form, I think the initiative came from CDC and the Ministry of Health [and Sanitation] in Sierra Leone. The 00:43:00EOC basically is the planning center. Like for example, yesterday when we went upstairs, I think the issue of--was it--Zika, of course, the hurricane. There was a communication room upstairs that I met the majority of people just busy, [typing] on the laptops, just checking, trying to get information. Moving. I think just similar. It's just a communication center. We have to coordinate, like there was a desk, a unit there for the surveillance team, a unit there for the mobilizers, a unit there for the field health practitioners, the public health. Even the survivors also have a unit and EOC. All actors that are involved in the fight. We all have a desk in the EOC in terms of coordination, 00:44:00in terms of also the fight. So basically, that's the prime function of the EOC: planning, coordination, and more implementation.

Q: Terri, do you have more? Okay. The last thing I want to ask you is can you tell us, Yusuf, what it's been like talking about it? What it's been like talking about your experience?

KABBA: The most important thing, I always feel I'm special, talking about my personal experience because I know I also am able to use my personal experience for people to learn out of it. Like maybe those that were fortunate to look at this particular interview, this video. I mean, there will be lessons learned 00:45:00based on my presentation. That will be also more to learn from me, and that will be also more to learn from late preparedness in terms of outbreak, late preparedness. I'm always just fine in terms of talking about it because I feel more--I get more pleasure out of it because it's my job and I'm still doing my job. I'm still doing my job. There is nothing wrong about that, and I think I'm always just talking. And for the media. I have a very working relationship with the media, the media communication because I know the role the media play in terms of fighting Ebola in our country. Awareness, issues, we are publishing in 00:46:00websites, ideas. Even the IPC [infection prevention and control], all of the things. I think I confirm about my status through the media, listening to radios, or that's one important, one significance of the media. That is why even in my country I have a good relationship with the media, with journalists. I have a good relationship with the communications desk because I love it. If you don't talk about the issue, people will not understand what you are going through. That is why it's always a pleasure for me to still extend that.

Q: Thank you so much, Yusuf. This has been a privilege and an honor to hear you talk. Thank you.

KABBA: Pleasure, yeah.

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